Have we failed Beethoven?

March 18th, 2010
  • He wrote his final grand symphony (Symphony No.9 the Ode to Joy) as an omen to people of other faiths. The "Ode to Joy" was to represent the brotherhood of MAN. It states that all men shall be brothers. The greatest symphony on earth was written by a man who could not hear a single note. Most of us would have felt cheated by a Jealuos God, but HE had a deeper understanding. HE... was the one... He would be a symbol for all times. Agreed???


  • Is your question : "Do you agree with my emotional rant?"

    If so, I answer, quite mildly " Not really."


  • sorry I didn't follow that. but as far as brotherhood of man is concerned, Man will always be a brotherhood whether we like it or not. This includes people of other faiths, ideas, colors, and backgrounds. are you talking about the lyrics to ode to joy or the actual composition?


  • No. We have not failed Beethoven.

    Although, I only speak for myself on this point!


  • You've asked a "multiple" question:

    (1) "Have we failed Beethoven"? Am not exactly sure what you mean. If by it you mean, has all humanity achieved a feeling of "brotherhood" with regards to respecting all religions and living in peace with each other, then the answer is painfully obvious: nothing could be farther from the truth. So in that sense, yes, we have failed him.

    (2) If you're relating his espousal of brotherhood to be a symbol for all times, is doubtful; it might be so to those who love and appreciate "western" classical music, but would have no meaning whatsoever to those who do not. So in an ultimate analysis, I could not agree with you.

    And sorry, but I can't agree with your statement: (he composed)"The greatest symphony on earth------------." I would agree with "one" of, but not "the".

    Alberich







  • 1. It's not the greatest symphony on earth. That's just an opinion of yours.
    2. I think a good number of us wouldn't cite god as cause for a hearing loss, let alone presume to call god jealous. Some are that immature, but many aren't.
    3. I don't think he had a deeper understanding. I think he was just a man who took the hand he was dealt and made the best of it.
    4. I definitely don't think he could be considered a "symbol for all times". As Alberich said, he is to those of us who know of him and of his music, but everyone else in the world couldn't care less (which is fine with me).
    5. Also, he used that particular text for a reason, yes, but if we took every text used for every great work seriously, then we'd have one messed up world. We'd all be terrified of Elf Kings coming and taking/killing our children, the actions of little dwarves ultimately leading to the doom of man by setting the earth (and then the heavens) on fire, and other such things.

    To sum up: You obviously put a lot of yourself into this music, which is your right to do. However, using your own emotional investment in this piece (and what you see as its "message") to, in a way, condemn the rest of us for (in your eyes) letting down a composer who died ~180 years ago is, in a word, silly.


  • I don't completely follow.
    He is rightly recognized as arguably the greatest composer who ever lived and will remain so until the end of time.
    That much I agree on.
    Our subsequent failure to meet the ideals of this brotherhood of man is because the essence of man has always been war not peace.
    The Ninth Symphony has never signified to me 'an omen to people of other faiths' rather Beethovens ultimate embrace of mankind.
    Though many would agree with you neither do I believe it to be the 'greatest symphony on earth'.
    I prefer his third,fifth,sixth and seventh..
    Ah shocking I know though I've never felt the text by Schiller to be a suitably worthy conclusion.
    Incidentally as you are no doubt aware it is suggested that Schiller's original title was actually "Ode to Freedom" (Freiheit) rather than Joy (Freude) but political pressure forced the change.







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